theREFINEnetwork Podcast

Greetings podcast pals picture this you,
me, and a conversation that's about to be

more exciting than a rollercoaster ride.

Sorry.

I went on chat GPT and just typed
in Hey, what are some podcast

intros and that's what I got.

So I was like, let's just
hit record and say it.

Very cheesy, but I've got my
wife, Erin back on the podcast

we're going to be talking about.

Working with your spouse.

Have you ever gotten this
question before, Erin?

All the time.

And what do you, how do you start
that conversation with a salon owner?

It's like, Hey, I'm thinking
about bringing my, my husband on.

How do you start that conversation?

Well, normally they ask me the
question and I just tell them that

it's the most wonderful thing.

That we've ever done together
and that we don't ever argue.

We don't ever fight.

It is just pure bliss, right?

Perfect.

Yeah.

And that's usually where
you end the conversation.

Yeah, no we get that question.

All the time.

And I mean, do you ever
get asked that question?

Yes.

They're always, I feel like he
comes in a, a question of my

husband is doing X, Y, and Z.

He possibly, what would it look
like if he came on to the salon?

They're basically, basically
like, what do you do?

Like, are we, we got to find
something for him to do because

he might be in a contracting or.

Something like that.

And they're like, well, he can't just
come in and fix stuff all the time.

So I think there's definitely
gotta be a purpose.

You can't just bring somebody
on to bring somebody on.

There's definitely got to be a purpose.

So let's talk about our story real
quick of how I came on to the salon.

I think early on, I was always, there
was always going to be a time where.

I thought that I would come work
in the salon and I thought it would

be years and years down the road.

But in 2018 it just came, I just came
home one night and was like, Hey,

what if I came to work at the salon
and you were behind the chair and

You came to me and said, you're kind
of, you're just kind of maxed out.

Like you'd be behind the chair and hiring
and doing payroll and doing leading

culture meetings, everything else.

So tell, everyone how that was.

At that moment and what
in the 2017, early 2018?

Well, yes, you're right.

I was behind the chair.

Well, let me go even further back.

In 2016, do you remember when we
were in the Charleston Harbor?

Sitting on a houseboat because
that's just what we did before kids.

We were gone doing three
day trips just on a whim.

And we had rented this really
cool houseboat right in the Harbor

and we're sitting on, on top of
that little deck area and it's.

Thanksgiving weekend and our desire
was to start a family and we dealt

with infertility for a long time and
so that was just really hard and we

said, well, if we're if we don't have
a positive pregnancy test by that trip,

we were going to take the foster care
paperwork with us, we're going to fill

it out and we were just going to do it.

So I just remember being
on the top of that boat.

Do you remember?

Do you, you don't remember this at all?

Well, we filled out like
boo coos of paperwork.

I mean, it was just insane.

So when I think about that and I think
about, I was behind the chair five

days a week we were about to venture
into foster care, which if you are

a foster parent, that's just a whole
other, you know, ball game because

it is just nonstop with visits and.

You know, inspections and getting your
house ready and you know, all the things

and you don't know when you're going to
get a kid and, or you don't know when

you're going to get that phone call.

So anyway, a few months later, we got our
daughter and totally rocked our worlds

and I was still working behind the chair.

Six months later, we got our son.

I was still working five days a week
behind the chair and fast forward to,

we knew we were going to get to adopt
our, our, both of our kids in 2018.

And that was kind of when.

This moment kind of really came up, right?

Yeah, in 2018, I was working for our
church and Erin would come in, , I

would be gone all day on Sunday and
I would see Erin come in with the

stroller with two kids and then she
would go grocery shopping afterwards

and I just thought like, man, I just,
I don't know long term, , I don't

want to be gone all day on a Sunday.

. what's the best thing for me as a
dad and a husband and coming on to

the salon, , , I'm going to ask Erin
if she says if she doesn't laugh,

I'm going to take that as a yes.

So long story short, we had to change
our, our lifestyle to bring me on.

And I worked that job for six
months so that I could save up the.

My salary to stash away.

So we would have a little
what do you call it?

Nest egg nest egg So if something
went south we had some money I think

that's kind of important to note when
people ask, like, you know, should

my husband come on board or, or, you
know, my husband's thinking about

stepping away from his full time job.

It's not something that we took lightly
or that we did without a ton of planning.

All right.

So I got a question for you.

How do you maintain a balance between
your personal and professional

lives when working together?

Are there any boundaries
you've established?

Let me say this.

You don't have a personal life and
you don't have a professional life.

You have a life where you go to
work and where you come home.

There's not, they're
not two separate lives.

I don't know why everybody in
culture, we paint this balance.

Well, to piggyback off of this, we
heard this today at the conference and

I guess I'm timestamping this podcast.

So sorry.

But we heard this at the conference.

And basically he said that life is like a.

Like a seesaw, it's
meant to go up and down.

It's not meant to be balanced.

And I'm like, oh my gosh, that is
exactly what, not, I didn't have the

words to describe it that way, but it
wouldn't be fun to be on a seesaw if

it was perfectly balanced all the time.

Yeah, I think culture has like
this professional life is like,

what's sucks the energy out
of you and your personal life.

So what's fills you up.

So you got to balance that out.

So if you go to work, you're not drained.

And when you come home, like you
have enough to fill you up, I just.

It's just so ridiculous.

Like we both enjoy working.

We both make our kids a priority.

We both make time for dinners
at our house, spend time with

our kids and we both work our
tails off and it's, it is doable.

We have work in the, we live in the
culture where it's like anti work.

It, you know, it's taken time
away and we work so we can provide

a great life for our family.

Now, I will also say this to you.

I will say I'm going to be very kind of
transparent, but over the holidays, I

just, Evan and I, we were talking and
I was like, I need our house to be just

straightened up, like all the time.

Evan, would you agree that that was a
very, like, big topic of conversation.

But it's for that reason because if your
house is chaotic, your life is chaotic.

If your house is not straight, I mean,
you don't come into your home and.

You're not ready to relax with your
family, especially if you work as much

as me and Evan do It's not like a badge
of honor by any stretch, but it's just

where we are in the season of life and
so I will say that is probably a hot

tip when you you're an entrepreneur You
work with your spouse you have kids.

They've got their activities.

You have got to have a clean
house You've got to you've got

to make your bed in the morning.

You've got to make sure you're
sweeping and vacuuming every day.

You've, you've got to do those things so
that you can do more of what you love.

Yeah, successful people
do different things.

And I think that was something that helped
us be successful, change our mindset.

One of the boundaries, we don't
have like strict boundaries.

We, I mean, there's times where
like you, you pull out your computer

at night and you're doing things,
but there's always communication.

You're like, Hey, I need
to do payroll or Hey.

I need to build something
for marketing and vice versa.

The only thing that we establish
boundaries is, and it's just

in communication, there's times
where you'll come to me and want

to talk about business at night.

And I'm just like, Hey
babe, I'm tapped out.

Like, can we talk about this
some other time and vice versa?

And that's really helped.

And we've never been like, well,
we got to talk about this or

no, let's talk about it now.

We've never really forced.

like forced us into a work
conversation when we're at home.

Some other boundaries that, that I've
established is, and it serves our

family is I live, I leave work pretty
religiously at 4 PM every day to go pick

up the kids because they got freaking
swim and karate and everything else.

So that's something I do that serves you.

Because there's things
that you need to do.

at work and I, and I look at my
work day as like it ends at 4 PM.

So if I can't get things done before
4 PM, then I'm not managing my time.

Well is there anything else
you want to add to that?

All right, well, let's, let's
pick one of these other questions.

Let's see.

Randomly, let's just see, how do you
handle decision making, especially in

situations where you may have differing
opinions on a particular matter?

Well, we'll skip that one because
we always have the same opinion.

If you know, Erin and I,
like we are oil and water.

We are so different.

We think different.

It's just so funny.

, cause most relationships.

You marry someone who's
completely opposite of you.

Cause if I married someone like
me, it would be exhausting.

So it, I mean, we always have different,
I don't say always, never say always and

never, which I said, never you'd get what
I'm saying, but we differ all the time.

I'm the dreamer.

I'm , Oh, X, like we could do this.

We could do this.

We could do this.

You're very analytical.

You're looking at the numbers and
you want to do the things that I'm

dreaming of, but you're looking at the
numbers being like, yep, can't do that

this month or less set or let's save.

So I'm gonna, I'm gonna hand the mic
over to you on how we handle decision

making when we have differing opinions.

Well, I don't think this
is super easy for us.

To be honest, because I think as
different as we are, we're both

very stubborn and set in our ways.

And would you agree?

Yeah, but everybody is
stubborn and set in their ways.

Yeah, but I guess, I mean,
this happened the other day.

You were talking about an event
we're about to do and you're

like, Erin, I know production and
this is my side of the street.

And honestly, I mean, I, Hopefully
you felt this, but I kind of

had this like realization.

I'm like, you know what?

He has no production.

.
Yeah, you're right now.

It doesn't always go that way, but
one thing I think we've, we do.

Is we don't, especially when something's
serious, obviously when we're joking

around, we'll do it in front of staff,
but we never disagree and argue in front

of staff, it makes them feel so awkward.

So do not do that in front of your staff.

Well, I think our staff are very smart.

And I think that we might try
and hide it if we are having a

disagreement, but they always know.

I mean, it's like Sammy was
telling us, she's like, Oh,

mom and dad are fighting again.

And I'm like, Sammy,
like, we're not fighting.

We're good.

You know, like, it's just kind
of a running joke, but it, like,

I, I get what you're saying.

I guess we don't ever have any knockdown
drag out fights and I could 110 percent

believe that that happens all the time in
businesses and organizations where husband

and wife work together or think about like
you know siblings that work together or

father and son or mother and daughter.

Bet that happens all the time.

Yeah.

You throw family in there.

It's definitely going to get awkward.

One thing that we do is, and I've got
this piece of advice years and years ago,

never speak negative about your spouse.

Never.

It's guys, I'm talking to you,
never speak negative about your

wife in front of your guy friends.

It's not, it's, it's not what
we should be doing as husbands.

And so wives I'll say the same
thing to you always speak about

your husband and the positive light,
even though sometimes it's hard.

Let's see, let's go, let's
pick one more question.

In what ways has working together
strengthened your relationship and

are there any challenges you've
had to overcome in the process?

In what ways has working together
strengthened our relationship?

Because you were not in the salon
world, you know, for the large

majority of our marriage, once you
came into the salon, I feel like You

just understood me a little bit more.

So I definitely feel like
that was a strength for sure.

And then I also, from kind of my
perspective, looking to you, I was

like, okay, like it was really cool
to see you jump in, be a student.

And I just gained a lot of respect.

Especially those first several years
when you really just were like, Hey,

I'm, I'm bottom of the totem pole.

You guys know way more than I do.

And I remember you saying that a lot of
times to our, our stylist and our team

like just the way that you came in and
you just, you did the dirty work, you

did the grunt work, you worked front
desk for like, what, six or eight months,

something like that until Sammy came on
board, well, I think some other things

that have strengthened our relationship
is going back to what you said.

If you're a salon owner right now and
you're listening to this and your spouse

thinks you just go to work and just cut
hair and sling color and drink margaritas.

Say Amen.

If you think your spouse says, I can't
hear you, but probably felt good.

And if you're in public and you
sit it, they're probably like,

what are they listening to?

I didn't know how hard
it was in the salon.

I was like, well, it can't be that hard.

I mean, you're only working like six
hours, but , you're on your feet.

You are active, you are
acting the whole time.

And I think us going to work together,
coming home together, you know, we

still say, Hey, how was your day?

But it's different.

We get to work out issues.

We spend a lot of time together.

Now we're at work.

I mean, we, sometimes we don't see each
other a lot at work, but I think it

strengthened our relationship because
we're both, we both have a common goal.

And it's not like I'm setting off
in my career and doing that thing.

And you're doing.

We're both doing the same thing and
have a common goal, but any challenges

that we've had to overcome in the
process, I think for me, I had to

overcome a lot of pride because you're
a brilliant mind and I just have to

let your, , when it comes to analytical
and spreadsheets and stuff like.

I don't like I don't handle any of
that a I don't that's not my go to so

I'm very thankful that you have I have
to trust in you and just be , Okay,

that's your side of the street.

I'm trusting you.

And you know, , Hey, do
you want to go over numbers?

I'm like, Sure, let's go
under but , you've got it.

I think in the first part coming
in, when I came in, I came in guns

blazing, like, let's change this.

Let's change that.

Let's do this.

And let's do that.

And I just had to swallow my
pride . She knows what she's doing

and I need to fall in line side by
side with you and lead the company.

And sometimes I, I feel like I step
out one foot in front of you sometimes

and I'm like, Nope, I just need
to swallow my pride, get back in

the line with you because that's
when our company runs the best.

What challenges do you think we've
overcome in the process in the past?

I will say for anybody that has,
especially the female stylist, I guess,

that's owned her salon for a while
wanting her husband to come on board.

I think we talk about this a lot
and I just, I like to remind,

this is not, I guess this is not
something we struggle with anymore.

But when Evan first came on
board, our team, They thought

Evan, like, hung the moon.

Would you agree?

Yeah, you do.

I do hang the moon.

Yeah, so and I think that that was really
hard for me because I've been doing it

with just me and our team for so long.

And then Evan comes on board and he came
on board because I didn't have margin.

And so it's not like I had any, like,
margin to be a part of the changes he

was making other than be a participant.

But, I had, I mean, it was just one of
those things where I had, I guess I had

to get over a lot of pride too, that
Evan is brilliant in his own right too.

I was just telling you at dinner
tonight, like, his ability to produce

content for our company with video
work, and editing, and Like, that is so

valuable that he doesn't even realize
how valuable that is for a company.

Most companies have to outsource that.

They can, they can't do that.

So I, I definitely, I, I would just
caution the female entrepreneurs

that want to bring their husband
on as like, look, your husband's

going to do things differently.

And your team's probably going to
think he hung the moon for a while.

So you just got to be okay with that.

But but we don't struggle
with that anymore.

Nope.

And here's another thing I say with, if
you bring, you're looking to bring your

spouse on, they should bring a ton of
opportunity and momentum to the company.

I would not bring on a spouse.

That's just going to sit in the
office and not engage with the staff.

Like that's going to be, that's
going to be not going to be

moving the company forward.

Would you hire your spouse if they
wouldn't, if they were not your

spouse to work in the company?

That's what I would look at it from.

And they should come in.

If that does happen.

Your spouse needs to come in and
they need to serve your team.

Don't, and that's one thing I'm,
I was kind of forced into cause

I had to go and work front desk.

That wasn't the plan, but I had to get in
the trenches with our staff and that was

the best thing that could have happened.

That's not what I had planned, but it's
definitely the best thing that happened.

Yeah.

And I definitely think.

You know to kind of piggyback off of that.

I do the financial side of our company
But I think that's really really important

to you know Think about would you hire
your spouse if they weren't your spouse?

So that's number one and the number two
just making sure that there is a financial

target that you are You are aiming to
hit so that you can balance out that

extra salary or that extra set of income
and having a set target of Revenue set

target on time, you know, all the things
that you need to make sure you have in

place or a plan in place to achieve that.

We're going to wrap it up there.

. If you have any questions about working
with your spouse or bringing your spouse

on hit me up on Instagram at evansilver.

co or you can email me evan at evansilver.

co you guys have a wonderful week.